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What happened by the river???

Discussion in 'Devdas' started by annous, May 4, 2006.

  1. cadisha

    cadisha Tiger Tamer

    I'm observing this topic since it has been started.. I haven't seen the movie yet (I know, shame on me [​IMG]), but i'm really curious about it now, cos I found it very intersting, what you can interpret into this scene. I love when I director works with symbols and sub-messages. Its just so wonderful if you have to use your imagination and don't get everything bite-sized (if you know this saying in english :confused: )
    Hope I can get the movie soon!
     
  2. Poonam

    Poonam New Member

    OK, first of all - Enass, what great caps ! Makes me want to watch the movie all over again.

    It's been very interesting reading all the discussions. I haven't read the book (Saratchandra is not really my cup of tea)but I imagine in those days, sex, if at all it featured in books would be a mere hint - you'd have to search carefully..and a lot depends on the translation.

    Anyway, the movie doesn't necessarily have to be 100% true to the book - as long as it captures the spirit, it's fine.I tend to agree with those who believe "something" happened at the river. The intensity that leaps off the screen makes me believe it couldn't have been anything else, certainly not just a dream. This is probably the most sensual sequence I've seen Shah Rukh doing. It's erotic, but very aesthetically done as well..great job by SLB, Shah Rukh and even dear, plasticky Ash.

    Enass, now you've kindled my curiosity, maybe I'll read the book after all !
     
  3. Poonam

    Poonam New Member

    You have really spent a great deal of time thinking this through, haven' t you ? Perhaps only someone sitting in far away America could look at 'Devdas' in this new light.

    I found the film very touching and beautiful in parts, but I also thought it could have been less ornate - to me that detracted from the intensity of the emotions. But yes, Sarat Chandra was definitely making a comment on the caste system, the elaborate feudal structures that came in the way of real, human relationships.(y'know something - stories like this still happen in India, where an entire village rises against a 'forbidden' love affair). I imagine the book must have been a shocker in its time, it is so critical. But I think we can only conjecture about Dev and Paro's premarital relationship until (A) we find someone who's read the original Bengali version or(B)Someone quizzes SLB or SRK about the true meaning of that fabulous song sequence. Until then, let's believe what we want to believe !
     
  4. annous

    annous New Member

    :D
    hey .. I would never over-analyze MHN.... I love that film don't get me wrong.. but with Devdas, what interested me the most is that a simple tragic love story had that much influence in India, a book that was written in 1917, and was made into films 4 or 5 times, is still resonating with Indians today, they still go and see the 5th remake, that was very intriguing, I read a lot about the book and the background, I can relate because alot of the Arabic literaure at the begining of the 20th century had to use the same methods when discussing social issues, and sensitive matters like sexuality and social structure....

    besides.. what's better than looking at the handsome face of SRK in a great scene like that one;)
     
  5. Poonam

    Poonam New Member

    No, I never thought you'd over-analyze MHN - that's like analyzing champage - pointless ! Better to just enjoy it (and get sozzled!)Seriously, I love your insights into Devdas. And of course, analyzing anything to do with SRK has the bonus of drooling over him !! Anyway, I googled a bit and came up with some stuff on Saratchandra which bears out your views. A few excerpts:

    Devdas: from the story teller to the film-maker /B]
    Sarat Chandra created a number of fascinating situations. His novels did not depend so much on personality clashes - as on clashes between social conservatism and social change. While developing his main themes he kept lighting up the landscapes and the portraits of his literature; sometimes also perhaps of self-portrait.

    Sarat Chandra, however, must have made himself disagreeable to the followers of the Brahmo faith; such people called Brahmos (arising out of the Sanskrit word "Brahman") did not like Chatterjee's novel called "The Betrothed" in which he told a tale of clash between Hindus and Brahmos (the latter had dismissed the priestly caste and the caste system). Tagore was a devoted Brahmo; there was deep in his mind a black mark for Sarat Chandra. A very reputed Bengali monthly magazine Probashi, edited by a top Brahmo Samaj leader, did not publish Sarat Chandra's works; none probably was offered.

    To measure the social relevance of Sarat Chandra it will be convenient to group his fiction in two parts. The first group of numerous novels and some short stories display the core of Hindu orthodoxy. In most of his books he is toiling without fatigue against the prevailing social system. Men and women emerge out of the system with hunger in their mind and body - hunger for a new dispensation. Some characters stand out; the women amongst them are often the dominant personalities without in any way losing their femininity. The men are heroic in the expected "Gotterdammerung" of the Hindu society. The themes are tackled with agony, passion and intensity and with utmost command over words; in consequence the stories do not bore and are read without getting the appetite dulled.

    The second group is of great fascination for the Hindu mind. The important thing in the Srikanta Quartet is the collision between social vision of purity and of rebellion against such concept of purity and impurity.

    Rajlakshmi, Srikanta's lover, in order to undo her past (technically of fallen status) and the present (her relationship outside the marital state with Srikanta) goes through the entire gamut of purity rituals. She continuously plays the thrumming notes of background music - against which other characters sing of freedom. In the first book of the Quartet, Annadadidi, a very properly brought up middle class woman, revolts against propriety, and runs away with a Muslim snake charmer. In the second part, Abhoya, deserted by her husband, breaks out of her social environment to live in sin with a man she accepted. (If SC could write something like this, it's possible something did happen by the river ??)

    In the third, Sunanda, a scholar, is also a rebel against the poverty imposed upon the peasant by the land tenure system. In the last book, Kamal Lata has walked out on her people and joined a Vaishnava sect based on total surrender and devotion. These gripping stories were told in a style of easy flow. The novelist does not pass any judgement himself; he lets the men and women he has created to speak for themselves. Sarat Chandra himself was unaware of the purity concept in the Hindu Social culture. He wanted only to raise the standard of revolt against the social cults, which debased and degraded humanity.

    Devdas is an exception. After he finished the story (which he did not want to publish) he was sorry to see what he had done. Standing over the denial, the disease of Devdas, the storyteller turns to the spellbound audience, and begs them to have pity on Devdas. When Parvati, however, hurls herself on the closing iron doors of society, he leaves the matter to the filmmaker — Barua, Bimal Roy or Bhansali.
     
  6. Meghna04

    Meghna04 ChakDe SRK!



    Thanks Poonam!

    That's right!
    Here are the Quote from the book:


    I have no idea what has become of Parvati now, after so many years. Neither do I want to find out. But sometimes I do feel sorry for Devdas. After you've read this story, maybe you'll feel the same way as I do. There is just one thing that I can say. If ever you happen to come across a hapless, unruly rascal like Devdas, please pray for his soul. Pray that, whatever happens, he shouldn't meet with the kind of unfortunate death that Devdas did. Death is inevitable, but at the final moment at least one loving touch should brush his brow; one caring, yearning face should bid him goodbye for ever
    -- he should die with the sight of one teardrop shed in his memory.


    Here I found some interesting thing in the book; written by the translator Sreejata Guha...

    A quick look at the most recent and most celebrated version of Devdas -SLB- will reveal the way in which the Devdas metaphor works in adaption.
    Bhansali's extravaganza is billed as "an eternal love story"; it consciously attempts to elevate the Devdas-Paro romance to a superhuman, semi-mythic level, signified by a diya that cannot be extinguished while Devdas is alive. But while the characters are elevated in stature, the story has undergone a simplification that puts paid to some of the complexities that abound in the original.
    In Bhansali's film, Paro and Devdas's love for each other is declared and manifest; it is only the parental opposition that thwarts it, not indecision. The mark Devdas leaves on Paro here becomes a bloodmark similar to the sindoor at the hair parting, thus codifying the relationship between the two in more obvious ways than in the novel.
    Similarly, the clarification that the relationships between Devdas and Chandramukhi and Paro and her husband remain unconsummated -an issue not tackled openly by Sarat Chandra- makes matters simpler for a viewer receptive to the idea of an idealized love between Devdas and Paro.
     
  7. filmifan

    filmifan bhangraholic nattu

    ok, maybe it's odd, but reading both of these made me think of Paheli...another social norm-challenging story with a strong female lead and a faulted, weaker male. and i did feel sorry for Devdas somewhat, despite also thinking he deserved to lie in the bed that he made...as i also felt sorry for Kishen in the end. of course, in Paheli, there was no question of what happened by the river, or should i say rooftop? ;)
     
  8. sanjani

    sanjani Ullu-Club Member

    There is just one thing that I can say. If ever you happen to come across a hapless, unruly rascal like Devdas, please pray for his soul. Pray that, whatever happens, he shouldn't meet with the kind of unfortunate death that Devdas did. Death is inevitable, but at the final moment at least one loving touch should brush his brow; one caring, yearning face should bid him goodbye for ever
    -- he should die with the sight of one teardrop shed in his memory.

    @Nicole

    Thanks for writing that. I thought it too.

    It breaks my heart that no one and nothing can stop him from drowning in love and sadness. Want to run and hold him.......

     
  9. Meghna04

    Meghna04 ChakDe SRK!

    Oh no Brita, I didn't wrote this!
    That was Sarat Chandra, the writer of the novel!
    He wrote this at the end of the book.
     
  10. sanjani

    sanjani Ullu-Club Member

    Ah, I see it's not good doing things in times of hurry. Had to got but wanted to read the posting.....
    It's sometimes really hard to translate and understand that much of information all around.....
    So it happens I miss something.....

    But I see also as I agree to the written thing: These stories and movies are made for me!!

    Brita
     
  11. Poonam

    Poonam New Member

    :D Not even a shadow, or should I say, 'ghost' of a doubt, Joelette ! Truth is, if you really dig deep into Indian mythology (and folk tales like the one Paheli is based on), you'll find stuff that will simply blow you away - raunchy ain't the word ! I still remember a trip I made to the Konarak Sun temple in Orissa which is famous for its erotic sculptures years and years ago. :eek: Omg...mindblowing stuff. Unfortunately, a lot of this (especially in literature and the arts) died under the influence of Victorian England as you can make out from the stilted English translation of 'Devdas'.
     
  12. sanjani

    sanjani Ullu-Club Member

    Oh yes!! The temples.... wow... :eek: :redface: :redface: :redface: I remember it.....:D :p :D
     
  13. yume

    yume New Member

    All of these posts are wonderful, I'll have to watch the movie one more time... This scene is fabulous and full of subtle messages...
     
  14. rollercoast

    rollercoast Zindagi

    It says a lot about the film that it can create this kind of (fantastic) debate.
    I think it deliberately leaves the river scene ambiguous - did they, didn't they, dream? all the arguments are valid. It reflects the ambiguity of their relationship.
    I haven't read the book, but am puzzled by the games they play with each others feelings. Why does Dev dismiss Paro so cruelly in the letter he sends her? Because he's a weak b...... ? or was it just it just a throw-away line when he told her it was he who burned in the flame she lit?

    I have just watched it (again), but its only the 2nd time I have been able make myself watch that devastating ending. I was again jumping around in my chair hoping she would get there on time. Surely Paro is one of the most tragic heroines you will ever see?
     
  15. semaay

    semaay Senior Member

    What an interesting topic and discussion? I think I have to watch this movie again. I have to admit that I never thought like this about this scene - maybe I am too naive :D
     
  16. Heba

    Heba Active Member

    Really interesting discussion guys i never thought about this scene in this way
     
  17. Pakiza

    Pakiza New Member


    neither did i...always got mad looking at this song:mad:
     
  18. Lachho

    Lachho Well-Known Member

    i've just noticed this thread and i have to say the pics first posted here, that scene isn't on my copy of the dvd, but they are beautiful caps.
     
  19. kahaanii2802

    kahaanii2802 Pagal Naanii

    That's why I love BW-films.............. you know - and what I appreciate even more, you FEEL - what is happening, but you dont't see it bluntly brought on the screen. :thumb: :D :thumb:
     
  20. Shabana_SRK

    Shabana_SRK Dr D&G

    very interesting discussion now i really want to go watch devdas lol
     

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