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What happened by the river???

Discussion in 'Devdas' started by annous, May 4, 2006.

  1. filmifan

    filmifan bhangraholic nattu

    i haven't read the book yet, so i can only go off of what is in the movie. but i've read that some people didn't care for this version because of areas where it strayed from the book. so in terms of figuring out what happened in this scene, it may be best not to bring the book into it.

    i'll have to rewatch this over the weekend! :p
     
  2. Meghna04

    Meghna04 ChakDe SRK!

    That's also what I mean... there are so many sign's that nothing happens between Dev and Paro!

    So now I've thought so much about this movie... I'll watch it now again...! :D
     
  3. filmifan

    filmifan bhangraholic nattu

    for more to chew on ;) , here is part of a critique i found:

    Sumitra is invited to a party hosted by Devdas' family where she hopes she will be informed of their family's acceptance of her daughter as their future daughter-in-law. She is also invited to dance, and this is where the gorgeous song 'Morey Piya' kicks in. The picturisation of this song is remarkable for two reasons - for one, Kiron Kher dances up a storm in a richly decorated set piece that reflects the opulence of old-world Calcutta, while on the other, Paro and Devdas romance each other in a serene riverside setting by night. The theme of Radha and Krishna is reflected here again, right down to the lyrics and the costumes. Paro balances pots on her head by the river, while Devdas attempts to seduce her while she takes up the most complex tantric positions. This is sheer Vedic scripture and romanticism brought to life, and the sensuality of the scene is heightened by the chemistry the two share. However, the director is careful to understate his case. Even though Paro and Devdas are immensely physical with each other, we never see this progressing past a hug or a stilted embrace. The way the song ends, with the two lovers entwined on the banks of the river (another incredible work of cinematography here) indicates that theres more to meet the eye, or perhaps I'm reading too much into it. Nevertheless, it does paint a darker picture of events to come if Devdas and Paro did consummate their relationship at this stage, as it makes the trauma of their upcoming partition even more difficult to bear.

    and if you'd like to read the entire review:
    http://www.geocities.com/mamavatu/devdas1.html
     
  4. annous

    annous New Member

    here is a great write up from the bollywhat forums... it uses another song to indicate what might have happened:

    I was watching the song Kahe Chhed Mohe and it hit me: the lyrics of this song are intended to hint to the viewer that there was, indeed, more than hugging going on down by the river in the previous song, More Piya. Bear with me here while I expatiate.

    Someone commented on the BollyWHAT? forum that they believed More Piya (MP) to be a highly stylized depiction of what was actually a sexual encounter. Don't remember who it was, but now I agree. Think about it: the Kahe Chhed Mohe (KCM) song, which is the next song after MP, is an exact retelling of the scene we saw in MP with one new detail: Radha, aka Chandramukhi, claims that Krishna "stole away her honor."

    This explains a lot. It explains why the song makes Devdas so incredibly uneasy, so agonized that he jumps up at the end and declares that he shouldn't have sent the letter and he's going back home. The song is throwing in his face the crime he committed: sleeping with Paro (an act with very serious social ramifications for her) and then abandoning her. Furthermore, if the version which Chandramukhi sings is the true, "uncensored" version of what happened in MP, it also explains why Devdas flinches when Chandramukhi says "Ish." The first time I watched this film, I thought he reacted so violently because he associates that word with Paro. Now I've watched it again, I realize that a lot of other characters say that word. Chandramukhi, however, says it in a context in which its meaning is "Shame on you!", and Devdas flinches because he DOES feel shame -- not, I argue, because he's simply left Paro, but because of what he did *before* he left her.

    Take a look at Kaahe Chhed Mohe's lyrics. There are some other similarities I think are significant, which I comment on below.
    maaltii gu.ndhaa'e kaisii pyaarii ghuu.nghar bhare mukh daaminii sii damakat How lovely are her curls, filled with braided jasmine; her face is brilliant as lightning;

    chaal matwaarii... her movements intoxicating...
    DHaa'ii shyaam rok le rok le rok le Krishna caught hold of me.
    DHaa'ii shyaam rok le aur achak Krishna caught hold of me and suddenly.
    mukh chuum le... he kissed my face....
    sar se morii chunarii ga'ii ga'ii ga'ii From my head, my scarf fell;.
    sar se morii chunarii ga'ii sarak sarak sarak my scarf went slipping from my head,.
    sarak... slipping....
    kaahe chheR mohe gharvaala gaa'e Why does he tease me so?.
    kaahe chheR chheR mohe Why does he tease me so?.
    na.nd-kumar aiso DHiiTH... Nand's darling [i.e., Krishna] is just that willful....
    barbas more laaj linhii laaj linhii laaj linhii By force he stole away my honor,.
    barbas more laaj linhii by force he stole away my honor!.
    brinda shyaam maanat naahii.n... Krishna will not heed me....
    kaa se kahuu.n mai.n apne jiya ki sunat naahii.n maa'ii To whom can I speak my heart when he does not listen? Oh, mother!.
    kaahe chheRe chheRe mohe... Why does he tease me?.
    dadh kii bharii maTkii... A small pot full of yogurt....
    dadh kii bharii maTkii le jaat rahi Dagarii biich I was taking a pot full of yogurt down the road.
    aahaT sun aahaT sun aahaT sun jiya rag ga'ii aur dhaRak dhaRak dhaRak heard his footstep, I heard his footstep and my heart swelled and began to pound,.
    dhaRak dhaRak dhaRak... thumping, thumping, thumping....
    kaahe chheR chheR chheR mohe Why does he tease and torment me?.
    kar pakaRat chuuRiyaa.n sab kaRkii kaRkii kaRkii... He caught me and all my bangles broke, broke, broke....
    o maa'ii O, mother!
    brinda shyaam maanat naahii.n... Krishna will not heed me....
    kaa se kahuu.n mai.n apne jiya ki sunat naahii.n maa'ii To whom can I speak my heart when he does not listen?.
    kaahe chheRe chheRe mohe... Why do you tease me?.

    Here are some other explicit references, in KCM's lyrics, to the events that happen in More Piya. One: describing Radha's face as "radiant as lightning." In MP, lightning illuminates her face several times. In KCM, we hear of Radha being restrained by Krishna, just as she was in More Piya. She's carrying a pot as well, which Krishna breaks, just as Devdas knocks it from Radha's head.

    Now, I know all these are pieces of common Radha-Krishna imagery, but to repeat the identical theme so explicitly, in songs that occur *back-to-back*? Clearly we're intended to see the connection, and treat it as significant (more significant, I mean, than simply another example of the Radha-Krishna analogy applicable to both pairs, Paro-Devdas and Chandramukhi-Devdas).

    Another point of note: the lines "kaa se kahuu.n mai.n apne jiya ki sunat naahii.n maa'ii" or "to whom can I speak my heart when he does not listen? Oh, mother!" seem more suited to Paro's voice than to Chandramukhi, particularly the maternal reference, seeing as Paro's mother is her succor during her time of need... Again, though, I'm assuming the choice of identical Radha-Krishna imagery back-to-back is deliberate and pointed. In support of my case, this film does not exactly reek of sloppiness. SLB went out of his way to create what he hoped would be a modern classic.
     
    Dea says thanks.
  5. Meghna04

    Meghna04 ChakDe SRK!

    ... while on the other, Paro and Devdas romance each other... The begining of his confusion about Paro!!!

    ...while Devdas attempts to seduce her... Hey! He's a man and totally fascinated by her beauty!
    And he only tried to seduce her! ;)


    ...Even though Paro and Devdas are immensely physical with each other, we never see this progressing past a hug or a stilted embrace....
    That's why nothing has happened between them!

    ...The way the song ends, with the two lovers entwined on the banks of the river indicates that theres more to meet the eye,
    or perhaps I'm reading too much into it....

    ...as it makes the trauma of their upcoming partition even more difficult to bear....
    That's clear! After they had shared their common dreams about a relationship...

    After all... I think they only cuddle together :p

    I wish I could know how SRK thinks about this scene!
    ;)
     
  6. Meghna04

    Meghna04 ChakDe SRK!

    ... It explains why the song makes Devdas so incredibly uneasy, so agonized that he jumps up at the end and declares that he shouldn't have sent the letter and he's going back home....

    I think that's exactly the moment when he realized that he is in love with Paro and he is ashamed about himself because he left her in helplessness and weakness.
    The part that he stole her honour was that, that he refused her proposal ...after the night at the river she went to him in the middle of the night... that was her honour!!!

    He felt also uneasy to visit the brothel... because he was not only the son of a Zamindar, he was a very proud person too!

    Thanks Enass for this article!

    It is very nice to discuss this movie with all of you! :hug: :kiss:
     
  7. annous

    annous New Member

    I think people get caught up with customs and sets and the richness of Devdas and forget that there is an underlying social and economical themes under the surface.. my purpose of this discussion was to elborate on the propability that Dev and Paro may have defied the social devide that is suppose to seperate them( the social casts, the premarital relationships).
     
  8. Wafa

    Wafa I want my Mom!!!

    wow. I never thought of it this deep, I too thought it was innocent by the river. I never read the book either, but I have to watch the movie again now to pay more attention!
    this is a good discussion thanks enass for the topic.
     
  9. filmifan

    filmifan bhangraholic nattu

    ok, so i already had to pop the DVD in and refresh my memory. :rolleyes: and i think there are just too many symbolic references in the scene for it to have ended with hugging:
    -the parallel to Radha/Krishna
    -water, from both a pot and the river
    -Devdas breaking Paro's anklet and waist belt
    -Paro's tantric posing
    -the lamp (quiding light/clarity) floating away
    -the breaking of the pot - Paro looks like she is CHALLENGING Devdas here
    -the spearshaped thorn (phallic symbol) in Paro's foot
    -the blood drawn from the thorn: there is RED for fertility and also BLOOD for the loss of virginity
    -Paro asking Devdas in Morey Piya to let her go, to please not shame her, saying that she is afraid. but then the 2nd singer (Paro's mother) sings: Thirst in the breathe, rapture in the body/Krishna does raas with Radha/Looking at them the world is astounded/Krishna does raas with Radha - and Paro gives in to Devdas and they lie down.

    i just think the deed itself wasn't shown because Sanjay Leela Bhansali wanted to be more metaphorical about it, and because of Hindi films being more conservative, and in a way, to pay homage to the 2 older versions. and to me, if Paro and Devdas were willing to break social norms involving caste and class, then why not sex? but it's when Devdas is back in his own house where the family (and the neighbors) could possibly find out, that his weak nature comes back into play. leading up to that, Paro seems quite naive...but after the night by the river, her character becomes much bolder. bold enough to go to Devdas's room at 2am. why not throw caution to the wind when you've already consumated the relationship? and most telling to me is when she comes back from the late night visit and Paro's mother asks her if she's already lost her honor - and Paro doesn't answer.
     
  10. annous

    annous New Member

    ^^
    joelette!!!!!!

    this is exactly how I feel.. I could not have said that better.
    for me the essence of Devdas is how weak Dev incomparison to the women in his life.. his mother..Paro, Chandermuki,Paro's mother.....all strong in their convictions.. and he... he is a weakling.
    I believe that Pao's refusal to elope with him was part ..wounded pride, because she surrended her honor to Dev and he abanded her.

    great analysis joelette!!!
     
  11. Pakiza

    Pakiza New Member

    wooooooooooooooaw didnt know that!!!
    thx alot enass for sharing...so u mean dev and paro DID IT by the river:eek: ?
    so she aint a virgin...
     
  12. I<3SRK

    I<3SRK New Member

    ^^omg, i always wondered about this scene ... coz at the end it all looked a bit "unfinished" and i thought would they have done it???
     
  13. shahzura

    shahzura New Member

    This is a great topic enass! Thanks for starting it:) ...I've always love the way the song was picturised in the movie...never did I actually try to ponder what actually happen there because when i did read the book & I know that nothing actually happen between Paro & Dev physically...I thought that being malign in the context of that period might just be being caught within close proximity of each other & alone from the public...

    But now that you have open the 'pandora box' :) ...i begin to wonder what actually happen at the river? This is Sanjay L.B's 'Devdas' so it means his own interpretation & potrayal of the story 'Devdas' which means it might deviate slightly from the original text...or is he trying to highligtht something to the audiences? How I interprete the scene is that...it's a picturisation of the two souls & what could have been.I doubt they consumate their love there but it could have happen but it didn't, as the desires are high & her protest are weak...later when she go to Dev in the middle of the night, she is surrendering herself to him knowing that there are opposition to their love & union...what ever it was, the scene at the river was indeed beautifully done & their desires were classy & subtly painted...it's like a breathtakingly beautiful painting! Well, everytime I saw shahrukh in that scene I have problem breathing anyway...:D
     
  14. shahzura

    shahzura New Member

    BTW, Enass...good job with the caps :thumb: ...somebody get me my inhaler!:D
     
  15. filmifan

    filmifan bhangraholic nattu

    and perhaps part of the beauty of this scene is that it can have multiple interpretations depending on the viewer.
     
  16. Meghna04

    Meghna04 ChakDe SRK!

    I couln't say it better! :hug:
     
  17. shahzura

    shahzura New Member

    I agree :) The river scene is like an brilliant artist's masterpiece. It can be seen from many different angles....& the beauty is that there is no wrong way of interpreting it...
     
  18. layla-val

    layla-val Active Member


    Very well said, everyone sees things differently, and if something is left to interpretation, then you will always get differing views.
     
  19. sanjani

    sanjani Ullu-Club Member

    Thank you all very very much for the interpretations.

    I always feel that there are things "behind the lines" but as an European I don't know much about the indian backgrounds.

    The next days I will print the interpretations and put it to my DVD and if I have a few silent hours the next days I want to watch the film again.
     
  20. Evy

    Evy Well-Known Member

    I will do the same. :thumb:

    The book I have never read. But I feel I have to watch Devdas again for the details you wrote about it. Thanks for this interest topic. :)
     

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